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ktype
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Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« on: Mar 8th, 2008, 2:09pm »
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Ilford's old pubs seem to be vanishing at an accelerating rate recently.
 
Join me on a trip I took across town from east to west yesterday and see what I found.
 
Only a 100 yards or so from the old Ilford (now the Redbridge) boundary stands the Chadwell Arms ...
 

 
... which stands empty after being closed for a few months now.
 
Moving along the High Road and round the corner into Goodmayes Road brings us to ...
 

 
... The Standard Bearer. Not an old pub, this one but one of Wetherspoon's conversions - in this case from an old furniture showroom. When it closed, the Wetherspoon name was ripped off the fascia and the place gutted internally but the name still survives.  
 
I think that an application was made for planning permission to turn it into flats but perhaps it failed. A banner has recently appeared announcing that a Mirch Masala (whatever that is) will be opening soon.
 
 
Now back to the old pubs - by a strange coincidence, on the same night that the Standard Bearer closed in September 2006 ...
 

 
... the Haw Bush at the top of Barley Lane also closed. Behind the hoarding, the pub sign still stands although the site seems destined to be for some more of those 'highly desirable' modern rabbit hutches ...
 
Popping round the corner to the Eastern Avenue and continuing westwards we eventually reach the unmistakeable sight of ...
 

 
... the Green Gate. Oh! How the mighty are fallen ...!  
 
Quickly moving back to Goodmayes,  we pick up the High Road once more.  Crossing the Seven Kings boundary, on the left is the ...
 

 
... site of the Seven Kings Hotel.  There have been a number of developments on this strip of land over the years and other landmarks have disappeared but I think this Aldi is on the “Kings” site.  
 
Continuing to Seven Kings station and a short way down Cameron Road is ...
 

 
... the Joker, closed since before Christmas and allegedly sold for between  1.5 & 2 million pounds for conversion into more of those 'highly desirable' modern rabbit hutches.
 
Back along the High Road and on to Ilford proper. Here’s a place that Feenix enquired about some while ago ...
 

 
... and if it wasn’t for Bodger’s Arcade, many might find it hard to place...
 

 
It was, of course, The Angel but, alas, no more. Now take a look at this passageway:
 

 
The original uneven stone setts have been replaced by brick paving but the wall tiling is still familiar on the entrance to the old stables behind the Angel – but what is that blue thing in the distance?
 

 
Yeuk!!!!  A plastic irish pub for plastic paddies, no doubt! Isn’t it horrendous? At least it didn’t look so bad when it was originally built as a replacement for the Angel.
   

 
It doesn’t look quite so back from back maybe but ....
 
Moving on into Ilford Hill we find a bus ...
 

 
... which is ‘Not in Service’, just like the ...
 

 
Red Lion behind the hoarding. It’s been surrounded by scaffolding for months now but I doubt that, unlike the bus, it will be returning to service.
 
Now on to our final stop which, just like the first, is only a 100 yards or so from the Ilford boundary ...
 

 
The Rose and Crown has been empty for a long while now. Anybody know what’s happening to it?
 
I know that there is at least one omission from this sorry tale – the Plough – or whatever is taking shape down there but the light was fading fast (I needed the support of some railings to get the Rose & Crown shot).  Also,  I didn’t know if I needed a visa to get through the Independent Republic of South Ilford, so I called it a day and went back  to where I started, to Chadwell Heath, for a pint or three in the Eva Hart!
 
Cheers!  
   Drink Drink Drink
 
Why does this smiley look like Guinness, Nigel? I HATE Guinness!
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #1 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 4:15pm »
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That is sad,but thank you for the great photos.
I was too young to have been in most of the pubs ,when we came to Canada.Though was in the Green Gate,once to see Bill Haley ,with a Teady Boy ex-husband of an aunt.
 
My mum worked as a cleaner for the mad old girl who lived above the Angel,for a bit.I was with my mum there one day,and the old dear gave me a scotch and coke,and I was 8?
 
Why are they all closed down,is it the smoking law,or not enough 'English',left in Ilford who drink in them any more?
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #2 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 5:24pm »
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Hi K-type,
  Thank you for pics and commentary.  
  Of those,I only visited the Hawbush(once)after finishing at the College opposite and also the Green Gate(once)to see a YES tribute band. Otherwise I spent my time at the Roundabout (charlie brown's) Woodford, now demolished or "country pubs" like The Retreat in Chigwell (demolished?) or maybe Abridge or further out into rural Essex. On the theme of pubs turning into McD's, my uncle ran a pub called The Target on the A40 into London. It used to get all the TV stars as they came to and fro to  the BBC centre. Had a couple of great Christmases there. Now the dreaded Golden Arch has it. Root beer anyone ? Vomit
 Bah Humbug, W
 
  
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #3 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 6:38pm »
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Going into The Angel in the 60's was like stepping back to the Victorian era.
I reckon that if the 25 bus was around in the 1800's Jack the Ripper might have got on at Aldgate,off at the Broadway and  chanced his knife arm in the alley there.
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #4 on: Mar 8th, 2008, 11:46pm »
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Great stuff Kt,my wife and I had post wedding drinks in the Angel '81.What a sad tale your pikkies tell,bit like a snapshot of the GB story
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #5 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 10:43am »
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...why do they have to make pubs nowadays look like something out of the space age,rather than leaving them alone to have their traditional homely look?
 
  Blank stare
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #6 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 12:45pm »
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Here are a couple from my neck of the woods.
 

 
This one is 700 years old.
 

 
Following K-Type's alley shot, a 500 year old pub, seen from a 700 year old pub.
No spaceships here. W
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #7 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 7:07pm »
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on Mar 8th, 2008, 4:15pm, gazza wrote:

 
Why are they all closed down,is it the smoking law,or not enough 'English',left in Ilford who drink in them any more?

 
The same appears to be happening to the pubs in Ilford as has happened to many of the pubs in the East End of London, due to the large numbers of Asian residents from a certain religion that are not (allegedly) allowed to drink.
 
I find it rather sad that churches in the Ilford area are now being sold or pulled down.  A large church in Goodmayes, along Green Lane (the name of which escapes me) has been pulled down to make way for yet more apartments and I saw one for sale in Oaks Lane, Newbury Park.
 
For the same reasons as above, there are obviously not enough Christians left in Ilford and surrounding areas to warrant keeping the churches going.
 
Great pix of the pubs ktype.  Any chance you could put some pictures on here of the slummy rundown state of houses and gardens in roads such as Ley Street and Aldborough Road South, so that our ex-pat friends from down-under can see why they should be thankful they no longer live in Ilford?
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #8 on: Mar 9th, 2008, 9:43pm »
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I've already got enough reasons to be thankful about it Tops',my last visit in '98 convinced me.God knows what it's like 10 years on.
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #9 on: Mar 10th, 2008, 12:40am »
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on Mar 9th, 2008, 7:07pm, Topsy wrote:

Great pix of the pubs ktype.  Any chance you could put some pictures on here of the slummy rundown state of houses and gardens in roads such as Ley Street and Aldborough Road South, so that our ex-pat friends from down-under can see why they should be thankful they no longer live in Ilford?

If and when I get a Round Tuit, I've often thought that would be a good idea to take (and post) sequences of pictures of streets in Ilford. (Had I started when I first had this idea, it would have include the Britannia building and the Red Lion without scaffolding!)
 
Initial thinking is Ilford Hill/High Road as far as the flyover; Ilford Lane/Cranbrook Road from abount Albert Rd to "The Cranbook" or, possibly, Valentines Park.
 
There are many queries on this Forum for historic details of sites in these areas. At the time these folk are asking about - see some recent requests - photography was expensive  and cameras only came out on special occasions. Today, virtually everybody has a digital camera, photographs cost nothingpence, and the internet offers lots of places to display them, for free.
 
My idea is to provide a snapshot in time (now) to answer the future questions of "what was there before" which none of us can answer today. Younger members, like Smash (and those who come after him), might like to update the collection on an ongoing basis.  
 
I know that Suli has taken some pictures of the local area in the past which she's sent to AP. Lots of people must have taken pictures of the local area! Why not make them available to everybody?
 
I appreciate that not everybody with a digital camera knows how to get them onto this forum. AP had this problem, so I offered to help out by posting his pictures for him - he e-mails the files, I do the rest.
 
I'm quite happy to do the same for anybody else who has pictures but doesn't know what to do with them.
 
Here's my offer
 
1.Attach your picture files to an e-mail
 
2.Ensure that the subject line is Ilford Forum (helps me filter spam)
 
3.Put your forum screen name at the start of the message (so I don't make any mistakes!)
 
4.Add the title of the thread your picture is to be added to (please make it clear if you want a new thread created - my telepathic powers are sadly diminished these days!)
 
5.Add any text you wish to accompany the picture(s) - file name/text ... file name/text ... etc. if you are attaching multiple files
 
6. Then send it to
ilford.forum@ntlworld.com (specially created this evening!)
 
I undertake to post the pictures on your behalf and keep all personal data (such as e-mail addresses, etc.) confidential.
 
I will not edit your files in any way except to adjust the resolution to best suit the Forum's display if necessary (max. 640 pixels wide).
 
I think it would also be a good idea to start a "self help" thread to assist folk who would like to put their photos on the 'net themselves. Perhaps Dave Clarke, Smash, Wessex and others would like to contribute?  What do you think?
 
Topsy, you said "any chance you could put some pictures on here ..." Certainly! You've seen my offer, all you have to do now is send me your pictures!
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #10 on: Mar 10th, 2008, 1:00am »
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on Mar 10th, 2008, 12:40am, ktype wrote:

Here's my offer
 
1.Attach your picture files to an e-mail
 
2.Ensure that the subject line is Ilford Forum (helps me filter spam)
 
3.Put your forum screen name at the start of the message (so I don't make any mistakes!)
 
4.Add the title of the thread your picture is to be added to (please make it clear if you want a new thread created - my telepathic powers are sadly diminished these days!)
 
5.Add any text you wish to accompany the picture(s) - file name/text ... file name/text ... etc. if you are attaching multiple files
 
6. Then send it to
ilford.forum@ntlworld.com (specially created this evening!)
 
I undertake to post the pictures on your behalf and keep all personal data (such as e-mail addresses, etc.) confidential.

 
OK folks! New e-mail postbox set up and working.
 
New account set up to avoid confusion.
 
What are you waiting for?
 
Nigel - hope you don't object to the duplicate account!
 
Ktype
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Angel
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #11 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 12:23am »
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lol @ Ktype noticing the extint pubs.
 
Of those listed I can remember being in....
 
The Chadwell Arms (once for a game of pool)
 
The Standard Bearer - usually to meet Ktype.  Bless him he humoured me by coming with me to watch one of the World Cup 2006 games there - a huge sacrifice as at the time he prefered the ale in the Eva Hart (also a nice pub).
 
The Kings - wasn't old enough to go into it but sat on the front steps and drank orange cordial and ate crisps while Ktype drank his ale.
 
The Joker - Ktype drank here when I was ickle - I used to sit with him in the entry hall.  At one point one of my school friends lived there and I have vague memories of waiting for him by the fireplace so that we could go to primary school together.  Also remember the staircase to the toilets and strangers giving me money for my moneybox when I was really little, and the annual November 5th bonfire and fireworks where I first discovered the wonders of sparklers.  Vaguely remember the three seperate bars (which pubs have seperate bars these days?).  Think I've got a black and white photo of my mum with me as a toddler on one of the picnic tables out front.  I looked well ugly as a toddler.
 
The Angel - again Ktype drank there when I was ickle.  Saturday afternoons... vague memories of an extremely high ceiling, like a large hall.  Remember the passageway to get to it.
 
The Red Lion - sitting/playing the the front entryway and my first memory of dry roasted peanuts (I loved the powder left at the bottom of the packet).  Playing in the HUGE beer garden, chasing those seeds that kids thought were fairies - if you caught one and made a wish then let it go the wish would come true.  Have no idea what I wished for!  Ktype and Mrs Ktype drinking in the garden while I played.
 
Think that's it!  Ktype will be sure to remind me if there are any that I've forgotten.  Smiley
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #12 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:06am »
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on Mar 18th, 2008, 12:23am, Angel wrote:

The Kings - wasn't old enough to go into it but sat on the front steps and drank orange cordial and ate crisps while Ktype drank his ale.

You've got me puzzled there! The Kings was a 'Wheatley's Tavern' when you were young and I never used it. Towards the end of its life the upstairs bar was revamped and I used it a couple of times - access was via an external cast iron staircase which I assume was originally the fire escape. Can't remember taking you there, though
 
Quote:
The Joker -  remember the staircase to the toilets ...
 
Not quite - the stairs lead to the car park - the toilets were to the right of the entrance hallway  
 
Quote:
Vaguely remember the three seperate bars (which pubs have seperate bars these days?).

Now, that's not bad! I think the saloon and lounge bars were merged around the time you started school! The entrance hall with its beautiful engraved glass windows (anybody remember those!) was removed at the time. The public bar stayed until (relatively) recently when it was taken over by the Magic Pub Company.  
Quote:
I looked well ugly as a toddler.
Oh no you didn't!
 
Quote:
The Angel ... vague memories of an extremely high ceiling, like a large hall.  Remember the passageway to get to it.
We used to sit at tables outside in the courtyard in the summer. The only time you saw inside was to go to the loo! Good memory though! Do you remember the Royal Coat of Arms on the wall? Dates back to the days when visiting magistrates held court there. The 'bench' was set up in front of it.
 
Quote:
The Red Lion - sitting/playing the the front entryway and my first memory of dry roasted peanuts (I loved the powder left at the bottom of the packet).  Playing in the HUGE beer garden, chasing those seeds that kids thought were fairies - if you caught one and made a wish then let it go the wish would come true.  Have no idea what I wished for!  Ktype and Mrs Ktype drinking in the garden while I played.
I think you're thinking of a side entry that led to the garden at the rear. We only went there a couple of times one summer. Then the landlord changed and, within a year, that beautiful garden had turned into a jungle!
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #13 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:14am »
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on Mar 18th, 2008, 1:06am, ktype wrote:

You've got me puzzled there! The Kings was a 'Wheatley's Tavern' when you were young and I never used it. Towards the end of its life the upstairs bar was revamped and I used it a couple of times - access was via an external cast iron staircase which I assume was originally the fire escape. Can't remember taking you there, though
 
 

 
Only remember being there once, and you must have gone to the upstairs bar as I remember the staircase.  Obviously i wasn't old enough to remember who owned it!  You obviously referred to it as The Kings tohough.  I remember you saying (probably at a later date) that there was a lot of trouble there in the evenings.
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Re: Ilford's Vanishing Pubs ....
« Reply #14 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 1:17am »
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on Mar 18th, 2008, 1:06am, ktype wrote:

 
Not quite - the stairs lead to the car park - the toilets were to the right of the entrance hallway  
 
Now, that's not bad! I think the saloon and lounge bars were merged around the time you started school! The entrance hall with its beautiful engraved glass windows (anybody remember those!) was removed at the time. The public bar stayed until (relatively) recently when it was taken over by the Magic Pub Company.  
 

 
Ok Mr Pernickety! (Sp?)  If you went up the stairs you reached the residential bit where Michael (my friend from primary school) lived for a while.  Remember sitting on those cold stone stairs.
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